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Tako Tako Talks
Tako Tako Talks

Season 1, Episode 10 · 2 months ago

#9 Feminism and hypocrisy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode the hosts, Eidde and Koi talk about Palequin Bearer, a poem by the first female governer of India Sarojni Naidu. The hosts discuss how her poems are evasive to a more empowered society and their hot takes on her works. Tune in, to know more. 

Hi, welcome to Taka Talk. I'M D and I'm Tama or coy, and in this podcast we talk about literary arts of all sorts, experts from their more entirety of them as the time permits, and we just go crazy about it. Then we talk. So today it's d e Ston to grace us with her intellect. So what have you chosen today? So today I have chosen a very small shot poem, but called Palicuin Bears, written by Indian poet, also referred as Nightingale of India, soroginy NAI do. The reason why I choose this specific poem, poem by Sorogynids that she was the first female governor of Ut Pradesh, which is a state of India. That's very interesting. Yeah, and she, uh, she was known for her poetry and for or. She was a woman's activist, she was part of suffragettes and in the national struggle and she wrote very beautifully. So I chose this poem because I find it very beautiful, very lyrical. I read this when I was in school and I completely fell in love with this phone. Yeah, I don't think I have ever read this, but I don't think so. Yeah, well, it's a fun read, shall i? Okay, lightly or likely, we bear her long. Lightly or likely. We bear her along. She sways like a flower in the wind of her song. She skims like a bird on the foam of a stream. She floats like a laugh from the lips of a dream. Gailey or Gailey, we glide and we sing. We bear her along like a Pearl on the string. Softly or softly, we bear her along. She hangs like a star in the dew of a song. She sings like a beam on the brow of the tide. She also like a tear from the eyes of a bride. Lightly or lightly, we glide and we sing. We bear her along like a Pearl on a string. That's very lyrical, yes, isn't it? It's very beautiful, very lyrical, very light. It gives me like a very airy field warm. Yeah, very warm and Airy, and we needed that today, especially after what we've read so far. Yes, we talked about some very heavy topics and mortality. That mortality or exactly. So I thought, why not choose the Palanquin bearers? So, yeah, so tell me more about it. What, in what context has she written this? So, you know, Palanquin, like the olden Indian, Indian Times. So we have India has a lot of rich Guntian traditions. So it's part of the tradition when whenever in the olden times, whenever the bride got married, so when she had to leave her house, so she wouldn't, she wouldn't, the groom would be going on a horseback, but the bride, she'd been this Palanquin. So it's like for I'm so sorry to go. For some weird reason, there's also a bird called pelanquin right, I kept on thinking Pelquan bearer and my brain was like that. You know that. So Palaquin is like it was beautifully and it has two arms at the front and two at the back. So the Pelican bears are the people who would lift them lift the bride and they would take her home. So this poem is basically a narrative of the Palanquin bears who are singing along and describing the whole tradition in the state of what is whatever is happening. So the Palaquin quear bears theyok, they take pride in their duty because it's considered to be a very sweet gesture or very sweet thing to do. For the bride. So they're describing the bride. This is likely or lightly. We bear her along, that she's like. This also shows the delicacy of the bride.

So like delicate, like she's so light. Lightly, they're happy doing what they're doing. She's carrying her she's like a flower in the wind of her song, because they're singing also, that's a part of the tradition, and she skims like a bird on the form of a stream. It also shows that she's very graceful. The bride's beautiful, she's graceful, she's like a flower, she floats like a laugh on the lips of her dream, because she is happy. At the same time she's at the turning point of her life, because in the old and Indian tradition, if you don't know, whenever, now these are new times. So whenever bride left her home, she would never go back to her parents house in the olden times. So for her, and because the distance was so a lot of these people they used to go by foot. So that was a time where bride, if they left the parents house, they would never go out. She's they're also showing her situation, like she's happy, she's excited to leave her parents house and go to her soul makes, her husband's house, but at the same times it's a mix of happiness and sad and like when you were you know how we I like how Rosie this poem is, but like, given the state of India and how usually it happens with women, it kind of paints a very different picture to the reality in that sense. And you know, Um, it kind of like when like, though it's pretty maybe I'm a little too critical about everything, you know, like how when we call the bright delicate, that she needs to be picked up and stuff, it kind of paints a very interesting narrative around some more likely, she's also probably a royal bride. Yes, yeah, and as you know, in India, the like, the women that like princess is doing like princess like during their wedding day. So and probably this is royalty that they're treating. So they are even more happy. In the whole effect is by happy. At the same time, this girl, she's never going to go back to her parents house and the situation, which has changed now but in the olden times, still the celebrating this. Yeah, cinema, it is funny, but the whole likeness of the thing is like how the atmosphere her society was also at that time, that this was considered a good thing, that a child leaving a parents house, even though if she'll never be able to meet her again, her parents again, but still, like it's like she's moving on to the next step of her life. Yes, and like we bear her along like a Pearl on a string. is also really rhythmic, you know, because the poem is very lyrical. Yeah, and it makes you dance, despite having some weird thoughts in her head, like really, but yeah, that's the beauty of this poem. It's so beautiful, the words are connected so beautifully, it's so lyrical that you feel like singing it as you're you're saying the poem. So that's what I like about this poem. And then they say, softly, softly, we bear her along. She hangs like a star in the due of her songs. And in the last line, you say, the third last, she falls like a tear from the eyes of a bride. Of course she's crying, she's leaving her parent's house, but at the same time this is a happy occasion. So that's why I choose this. Well, while, yes, it's a good poem, but I have like, you know, maybe I am somebody, as I was trying to put it out earlier too, it's kind of Patriarchally, because I understand the delicacy of her bride, the flowery nature of her bride, but I also feel as the first governor, like the first female governor, of a state like Ultra Pradesh. So people who do not know, Thropradesh is the largest state in India and that's where all the votes come from. Exactly be the crime in Utra Pradesh against women, honor killings, casts Um, that is on the peak and like, while it's lyrical, Violet's good, I would have for for a woman of power, for a woman of this position, a social activist, to have painted such a rosy picture.

It kind of, you know, defeats the I don't know, because I think I understand what you're saying, because they've only shown the bride is delicate, soft, something that has to be taken care of, negigibility that you have to put inside in storage. Precise then you can't you know exactly, and you know that kind of irks me, to be very honest. While it is pretty and you know, it is just itching that, because it extends to objectification of women to an extent, while of course there's a political, not politically poetic, the poetic license which a port uses to personify whatever they want, or they can change, bend the rules of grammar and such. But, you know, I would have expected more. Is What is the only thing I'm trying to say, because, you know, because her sadness of her leaving her parents forever, it is just like, you know, it's like, all right, she's that, cool, let's move on. That good thing. She's that. But that's how you think, because this is probably like what might take. Can Be that she's written it from the point of view of the polyguon bearers. Yes, and maybe the men also at that time are patriarchal and that's all the Palagon bears think. They do women. But the thing is that for anybody to read this otherwise, yes, it's from the perspective of the pleguan bearers, but it would be very I feel it's a rude interpretation of that because, you know, there are a lot, a lot of players have not been touched. Is what I like. I don't know. Maybe I'm like to inspire, like I pre personally like writing which is more gruesome, which like calls people out, which does not paint a pretty picture, because we need to accept that the world isn't pretty, it's not a nice place. And from a woman power, I do expect a certain degree of ruthlessness, because not not only from a woman of power, with anybody in power, with science and who want to help people out, there needs to be a certain amount of ruthlessness and, like, while speaking of this, I just realized, Um, a lot of Indian authors, unfortunately, even when they are ruthless and critical about the society, they are just like spelt it with stones. They're like recently, when like Padma pustions of some prominent writers, they denied it to like they said that we will not take this award from the government file. The government took their like treated the award from some people because they were out loud about with the sentiments. They were strong and like you know. So I kind of feel that maybe ms and I do like I have nobody to you know that, being the first woman, she was walking on egg shells and most of her poetry basically, you know, went around this of you know, caution, of you mean as a poet. She was very cautious in her precisely and which I think is like I personally do not like poems which, while I like them being lyrical, I actually feel like an asshole right now when I'm voicing these things out, because she is a gift to write. She is the very wracking skills, very good. Addiction is good, it's very free, it's pretty worse. It's very lyrical. That's what I love about this poem. That's very but that is all there in real life. It's more of a paradox right exactly. And the girl is leaving because she's talking about royalty, many, many years back, was now they're no more exactly. But this woman, like this bride, who's considered delicate, just delicate, soften this and that she's leaving a barns whatever, she's never going to meet them again and everybody is happy about it, even though she's she's getting she's gotten married, she's going to do a husband's house, but she's never going to come back exactly, and so it's those kind of contradictions...

...and I feel that this thing is like there in a lot of her poems, for exactly like do you? Do you have any other poem that you would like to read? Yeah, actually, there is one. Why don't you go ahead and read it? Show yes the bingles. I have read this and I also had multiple issues with this UN similar lines. So it's called the Bangal sailers and it goes as Bangal sailors are V who bear are shining loads to the temple fair. Who will buy this delicate, dright rainbow tinted circles of light, lustrous tokens of radiant lies for happy daughters and happy wives? Some are some are meet for a maiden's wrist silver, blue, silver and blue as the mountains mist. Some are flushed like the buds that dream on a tranquil brow of US woodland stream. For some reason I'm getting like really now it's reading it. Some are aglow with the bloom that leaves to the Limpid Glory of the newborn leaves. Some are like the fields of sunlit corn, meet for the bride on her bridle mourn. Some like the flame of her marriage fire, or rich with the hue of her heart's desire, tinkling, luminous, tender and clear like her bridle laughter and Bridle Tair. Some are purple, gold flicked gray. And for she who has journeyed through her life midway, whose hands have cherished, whose love has blessed and Tradle Fairce Sons of her faithful breast and serves her household in fruitful pride and worships the gods, gods at her husband's side. We the ending really is very better arts. Yeah, I liked it a little bit in the middle. Once, like you know, some when she like the bridle moon that was made for bride on her bridle more so that is nice, because at least there's some sentiment of sadness and mourning happening. So that was, oh my God, Nice. And then suddenly she went like full blown Patriarchal Fair sons, which in its essence is like like fair. They can be daughters also. Come on, fair. The word fair itself is problematic because when in India the skin tone does matter, and I think fair is another word or for like being changed based. Yes, but but it can be interpreted both ways. In my open and because a lot of times you know, why only sons? Why not also being a woman? When you write like that, it's a little disappoint exactly and craddle fair children that I guess that should go and and like you know, when they are right. When she is writing about the Bengal sellers and bngals being delicate and and writes being delicate, she's never said once strong pride or she's only described them delicate exactly. And you know that like or maybe she's trying to show men's point of view, like path and bears, how to see the bride's delicate hard anal bears or men in society, these unvery educated men also, yes, but isn't it kind of your when you are a poet who knows the society as well? Isn't it your burden to actually educate the people, perhaps with your right things? And I mean, alright, I understand that, but in the end, what is this? Worship the gods at her husband's side? Like, I mean she's basically, you know, breastfeed your sons, you serve your household with pride and then worship the gods at your husband's side. Because even in like there were statement like worship the gods at your wife's side and like, you know, because in the context where a lot of times women...

...are not allowed to enter certain temples during the Menstrual Cycle. They're considered impure and that that is so funny. That I don't understand. Now it's a lot of women say that exactly somethings like you said, you know what, do this, but since this is your time of month, don't do this. So I'm like why? Why? You are all educated women, even if you don't and then they say, you know what, we actually don't believe in them, but still for the sake of traditions. I don't understand that. Because this, Um, I it's just it's beyond me how she can write this and just I just don't understand it, because I mean, yes, it is pre independence India, yes, it's a woman of that time, but first governor of the state of up yeah, like, maybe I do not understand her and like I'm being really rude. I know I'm being rude for that matter, because I am coming from a generation like now we have dissimulated the concept of gender to a very large extent. We are trying, and I am in love with the concept and maybe that's what I'm trying, but yet again, I just I just don't I cannot wrap my head around maybe if we can you know what I'm craving right now for my own sake, is perhaps a diary of us, perhaps some memoir in which she is honest, true, maybe, maybe, then we'll understand her psyche exactly. You know what you know, and right I do know. She's an American writer. She was a very headstrong writer. She wrote one of the most powerful female characters and once she was asked a question that anythink women can be president? The woman asked me. She's like, no, I don't think women should be the president of women can be the president of the United States of America, coming from a strong woman who has written strong CDAC exactly in the and in characters. Saying that, but she had a different stream of thought and once you read about it, maybe in her it never made sense to me, but I think in somehows, at some level it made sense. But in this case of her poetry, it's it's like she is the governor of a state, of a very strong state, one of the strongest states, and she is letting men take over patriarchy, whereas she probably in her personal life, I think she fought the hardest exactly against Patriarchy and like in respect to the Banal sellers. Like I'm not able to find that specific poem. I was talking to you about it. So banngal sellers live in very impoverished conditions, still date, because they work in cooped up rooms, small rooms with a furnace and like. Maybe she could have highlighted a little bit like, even if she wanted to glorify that, she could have. You know, that bangles basically cost life, they cost eyes of people. People Become Blind after me bang. So maybe she could have highlighted that. You would have highlighted the underlink caasterism that is following that. And I just I just do not, I cannot agree with the right and I really wouldn't read any. I wouldn't you get. I think I understand what you want to say, that the poet is very good at her writing. It's very lyrical, like the paragon wis. I love reading the Palaquonis, but if I take it at a deeper level or the specific one, it's all very patarchical. She hasn't she could have used her addiction, her writing skill, for a cause also at the same time. So maybe that's where it is lacking. And also the Bangals in India are symbolic of a marriage woman exactly now at the times have changed now because if you want to wear them on occasions like the value anywhere we were where Bangals, we get ready, but this time bangals only symbolizes life of married women. It's so funny that at that time, that time period, if if a woman became a...

...widow, she had to break her bangles. So she like in the movies they show, because movies are so petriarchical. But why does why can't she wear it otherwise, you know, just the fact that you're breaking actual class. I think in the old movies, all in the movies, some of them, not the sixties. Sixties, I think movies were very realistically, Very Nice, but I think mid eighties movies even, I think even in the two homes in some movies. Yeah, so I think they're also very petrarchan nature that a woman, if she whatever she dresses or were as well, is the sake of for her husband or a man in her life. But I think if they want to wear it, whatever they want to do it, do it for yourselves, you know, dress up for yourself also, not just for your husband or for the patriarchy. In that way, maybe you don't realize it. You say, okay, that's love for her husband or love for the person, our partner, but in a way you're actually feeding on feeding the petriarchy exactly. and Um like. Unfortunately, what I've seen in a lot of popular Indian literature is that they um like I was speaking to somebody who makes Punjabi songs, a singer or a songwriter, I do not remember anymore because I get I couldn't have completed the conversation because I was soked. Um. They went on to say that will I write about guns, killing people, raping women and drugs, because that's what the public wants, and I'm like, you stupid fucking Asshole, like, what the Fund is wrong with you? People like I just I understand that sometimes the public wants things or they do not want to be educated, and you want to your content to go further. And Yeah, yeah, but still, what the funk is wrong with you? Why are you like like this? Even is there in like a lot of reps, if you like, even outside of India, a lot of wraps, as they objectify women and the objective exactly, and you're asking there because the people, like, what the Fund is wrong with you. You are somebody with influence and power and it is your responsibility to make people better. And if you're content, if you're anything is perpetrating discrimination, it is your fault. True, it is very hard, you know, for women like our society has moved on, we've become more revolutionized, we've become women, their situation in life has become strong. But I feel to all the point. Women don't start supporting each other, they're not able to. They won't be able to break off the botarchy. Yeah, and I feel like women doing men, and no less than like the quote, and quote women because they also like some some sort of drama happening in their wives lives so they can like intervinwal. But you know, honestly, I have seen women are suppressing other women. Yeah, they do. They do us, and this might be a very good example of that. Also, precisely a woman as strong as her delicate ifying everything in the world. Because, you know, the thing is, a governor is not meant to be fragile. I'm sorry, but she was a very strong activists, exactly, and then she goes on to generalize all women brides as like fragile, and she took part in the suffergities movement. So I don't know why she or maybe she's actually showing the perspective of the bangle makers or the men Engina, but how they see all, like I was, like other poems that I thought they were. Most of them are about love and like the North Indiana of Boem, the general of boom and so on. Like I you, I just I just do not like, I don't have words. I wanted to say. It's not as realistic as you thought it should have been, as I wanted it to be, and like, not that I blaim them, but I also feel that if a poet,...

...or I just don't have the power of pen if you can write, then write something that will calls the tremor in the society, in the Patriarchy exactly shifted. Do Somehow we'll have some shifting part exactly. And like, while I do understand it might not be safe for her to do that, but maybe I just do not know, because I would sound like a crude, idiotic human being to say that. Or she must have had you can't. People have trashed about their monarchies. They are Chinese people who trash about the Chinese government in the present day, when everything is so connected, people dial left and right and they still do that. And used as the governor of the largest state of India, did not do it. So I thought, I think that she just did not. Maybe in her literature she didn't. Maybe in real life maybe, but maybe in her literature she did not. Like there are more Indian writers like Marsh Marsh, that Dave Arma and a few more like who are amazing, like they have actually written about, written about and these women have written about feminism, a lot of their fight with the subjugation radical ideas, radical ideas which were growing at that time. And so Jennie and it was only written about associated marriage is only biggest thing that might have happened in their life, and nothing other than that, though. She is herself working, she was a working woman, but she never wrote about that, which I find strange also because she's only associated marriage, a woman being married to be the biggest happeness, or being a mother. But what about being independent or being like your own person, being your own person, being strong, not just being delicately exactly talk about how difficult maybe, like of course it was difficult for her to become the government. It would still be difficult for a woman to become governor in the state of it now, as would be easy exactly after having multiple female people at the lead, like even right now, like the major political parties are led by women. It's a very funny dynamic because I feel even the women in power in not only our country a lot of other countries are so patriarchal. It is like, yeah, I think Patriarchy is steeped in the blood. You know how I think about it. For example, if a woman becomes a mother, she gives birth to a boy, so will her patriarch will her feminism come out, or whether it's I think it's a battle in women, in them also, because if they have gone through shipped, they've seen they've been suppressed by Patriarchy and if they have a son, it's easier, if they know, it's easier. Yeah, you understand what I think a lot of women have that mindset and that is why they support petrarchy. Further, even though they could have they could say they could tell the son of you know what, be a feminist. I'm going to be a feminist. I'm not going to let my son's I go through like I did. But that's not how they we did all that. So please, exactly, your wife will be able to do it. It's my son. She has to serve him. Yeah, exactly. I served my husband, should serve so my family. I love both these men in my life. Or if I have a daughter. It's like no, no, no, you have to find a place in there. I did it to find your own space for a couple of years, be quiet and just handled the game control. Yeah, but that's it's great. Why all that has to be there? What I mean to say, but that's a system, you know. Yeah, I think it will take us a while to grow out of it, and I hope we do. I hope after this the poem, which we're supposed to be light and actually turned out to be very serious topic of feminism. Yeah, and...

Feminism and hypocrisy. Yeah, I don't I think it's very difficult to separate patriarchy and feminism and put them together at the same time. It's very tangible topic. It is. Maybe we can perhaps dive more into it on a later episode. Yes, and like again, I would like to emphasize that I mean no disrespect to sin she is a difficult writer. Yeah, I love her poetry. Like I said in the initiative. Also, I love her poetry. I love the lyrical, lyrical rhyme rhythm that she has and I think she was an amazing poet. But I think she's highlights and even an amazing person, given that she has done a lot of social work. But a bitter author, a bit a bitter poet for the cause, poet with the cause perhaps. Yeah. Well, I guess that's a wrap on this one. Thank you, dear listeners, and let us know what to on. So do or any any other album board. So that's it. Thank you, doc. Okay,.

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