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Tako Tako Talks
Tako Tako Talks

Season 1, Episode 8 · 1 month ago

#8 Dream on Dinner

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode the hosts talk about the book "Dinner List" and pick up little aspects from the book and explore how it affected their life. May it be friends, romantic afflictions or more, everythign is touched upon- and ofcourse the usual banter.

Hi, this is d welcome to Taka Tako and hi, this is so much. Welcome to TAKA TA talks, a podcast when we talk about literature, art and all things culture and often, in to forget the name of the podcast, to just being passively Christ and you gave me the same guy I did get. So how are you? I'm good. I'm good. It's very hot today and air corn is on, like it's so, so, so damn hot, but still we are yeah ta talks, and we are discussing through our lives and doing yeah, and I'm like full. We just had food and I feel like we've been drinking. I don't know what all these been having. Water, then uh, Americano, and then, let's see, American. Then I don't know how it's going on inside this stuff. I don't even know it. At this point I'm sleeping. That's so good. Don't know. I like some less buttermilk, for the people who do not know, it's a savior for the summers. It's a savior for the summers and hit me wake up more than coffee does. So, since you're finally awoken, what do we have today? Today we have this beautiful, beautiful book which I gave you anyone like, I'm not going to like. I'm not going to agree with the recommendations. And basically, when I started of the book, I found a little irritating. Like it took me a while. So I was on first and second chapters for like a month and then after that I picked up the speed picked up and then I started reading. It was interesting. It was really an interesting read for me and like what I love about this book as I was reviewing it just has such small chapters. It feels so rewarding to read it. That's if you like. It's a chapter, the only two pages of the chapter. So basically I just read first two pages of the book and then I didn't read it. But after a while I came back to it. Yeah, but I forgot. I had forgotten about the book. I listened like but you...

...introduced the book. Yes, I didn't introduce them. I remember reading it, but then when we started talking and late just now, then I recind my emotions with it. So let's drive right in. So, first of all, what is a general view on the book? Like, all in all, it's a good book. It did make me tear up at the end and I kept going from waves of emotions through people's psychological emotions, all sorts of emotions. I felt through the book initiative. I did not initiative because the sense that there's already happened in the book initiative. I was like, what the fun is she doing in the book? Why is she there in the book? What's the point of having her in the book? So I thought maybe the author has put already have burned because she like the kind of experience she shares with her ex boyfriend. That's what I found at the later part of the book when initially I was like already happened, it's been is being described in the book, as we see, as we know about her in her documentaries or things that are written about her everywhere on that. So I was like what's the point of having all you happened? But then it all you happened starts flirting with the other guys like okay, that's a new value. That's the literally license that the author has, and then she keeps developing all your happen in that way and then I started liking having her in the book and her presence. All right. Well, like talking about Audrey had burned, there was like and the start like what. I agree with everything that you said, and we were just discussing while you were trying to find extracts from the book, that the book in the beginning is amazing. It gives you laps on the face with the first hundred pages or so and then the entire book is like lavaging it. And for me, something that stood out the most in the book is how that girl basically stalked Tobias with his artwork and ran around him and then it was very freaky creepy in a way, like he was a photographer and then she saw him first and like a gallery and stuff. Right. So that was certainly interesting and I...

...don't es. For some weird reasons, this reminds me of a serial killer who wasn't given the way she stopped to him and then when she found the look, she has a he has a girlfriend, so she just bought the painting and just ran away from yeah, exactly. So that is very like serial killery, you want, to lack of a better words. I guess not, but that is something which, for some weird reasons, stands out to me. But we need to make it clear what the book is like. The mean, but I guess we can or we don't want to ruin it for the people. Oh, yes, maybe, basically, you tell you've read the books of Gilts. So this is the main protagonist. It's a birthday and she's made up a list of people that who come up for her birthday dinner and some of these people are present in her real life and some are not, like her father or only is not present, like all we have burned like historical figure. Not Historically, but in a way she is for the protagonist. So that's how it is. And they talk about love, carrier, life, friendship, everything and their relations one one on another with each other. But her relations with Audrey Heppen is more like her guy. That, I think in the vary. Yeah, but it's interesting why she has her exactly like one. One thing that Audrey Heavens like Audrey happen, as you said, a guy like a guru of sting, like a spiritually, but then he should have. She could have been write with the Lilam or so. Yeah, but I think. Yeah, but that by her. And like, for example, there was this little extract Bearin like Robert as her father, right, yeah, and he says the world has become a dark place in recent years. And was a professor, Yeh, was the professor who an audio heaven were floating flirting. Yes, that that part of life, because that was where the thing. This is her own literary license. So connor she exist? That it always has. People are just paying attention. You cannot have good without evil, utrey says.

They're like D instrands, intecrectly and revocably spun together. And so sorry, I cannot speak. Sometimes, uh, sometimes goodwins, sometimes evil does. We do not fight for what? For goods permanent triumph, but for balance. And so it goes and so it goes, corner, it goes Nice. That's deep. It's deep and you know, it makes me feel like how for like a lot of like in Hinduism, there's a lot of times there's this little thing which keeps on happening wherein the people they're like the God would not exist if not for evil people, and God makes evil to improve like good. Yeah, to like make the good feel more important, because if there's no evil, there's no good. said that. It was like an interesting you know, in Hindi like when I was in school. So I used to have my tent three exams. The Hindi subject was, you know, a different one. So every time, and they used to be this question about good versus evil, and I always used to write after good comes evil, and even cannot live without good and good cannot live. That was my statement answer. I think all Hindi and child does. They have this moral at the end, don't they? They do, they do. They're very like the world is a great area. It's like yeah, it's like you cannot value good without the evil. Exactly. And it's weird how the current society has like basically forgotten that we have a movie like that exactly. God, I don't know why I use that as an example, but yeah, it's a good movie. It was a popular it was. It was a movie. You know, prison use their song in them yes, in the movie, but no one can notice that. Even I don't know, I noticed it a little during the very brief yeah, it wasn't that fun, not like interesting, but let's see, moving on. Yeah, so the extract that I really liked was about another one of all, we heppens, whose presence initially I not like. In the book, so she...

...says. Decades later I started working with the a SEF and before I died, I traveled to Somalia, seeing that famine, those children starving. She swallows and I see, even in the lamplight, her eyes swilled, the tears, filled with tears. These are the author is the narrative here, the girl Sabrina. Then they say it was worse, she says, because I wasn't in with them and I couldn't fix it. Two million people starving. She shakes her head and wipes out her eyes. Then you suffer alone. It's terrible, she says, but when you watch other people suffer, innocent people, those that cannot help themselves, it is worse. She looks at me and I know what she's saying and what she's trying to convey. Thank you, I say, for sharing that with me. H for me, this in works, like why? Yes, it's. It is like it is twofold a people in terms, like they see other people suffering and they empathize with it and then they're like, Oh my God, answer that. So it's a little bit of that, which is like the Sassin re market and like. This is something people do a lot and I think it's not very healthy, because it is good to empathize, but you do not you and we then like when people empathize, a lot of times they're going there's such a kind person, they empathized with people, but a lot of times it's it's not empathy. I'm just like maybe in Audrey Hibbens, like in the book's case, it's like all right, like it's proper empathy and she did work for them and such, but like in most people's cases that have come across, they just do it for lack of a better work, for the attention of like validation that we have a better city. Charity begins at home, it's rightly said, because if you go out of the way to help, but when at home, like at you surrounding, not that I mean by your home home, but in your neighbor or in the neck...

...of your woods, you're not able to provide charity. But then you like go over a distance or ext like in a way that, oh, you know, this isn't public, then I don't know if that makes more different, makes more different. I think both things do make difference exactly. But then it's not really want to palace or something. Is a missing. Yeah, but I think maybe in the American context it's like people are different than like. I don't know, I'm I don't know what goes on, but like, for me. And the second thing, this was important because I was in the same situation. There's a reason there's only one Mother Teresa, exactly, I think. Yeah, I think that's what justifies it. In a way. It doesn't. It does not because Mother Teresa was not a fun person whatever. So like, like it was more of a missionary thing. That, like, that's going to be a separate for me. Why I relate to this and why I asked you to read this is because, like, I recently felt the same thing when I was walking on the streets of my city after one am and I saw so many homeless people and I felt sad. But more than sad, I was surprised, because I do come from a privileged background and I was so very, very well shielded from this side of the city. I never knew that would exist, you know, like and like they were something which was the most notable. So, you know, those are they like behind the bust of there, like these little kitchenets which people have, I guess, you know, like a small little stove of like wood and such. So one of those people did not have a house to let. So they so this was the kitchen it and just behind that, with like a little plastic and such as, what they've made their house to make off. So they had a scooter and a bike pat in front of that, but they did not have a house, and that made me. I still don't know how to feel about land, like priorities and like so many different things. Things you get, things you are not able to get. Se can you're able to four, things you're not...

...not able to. Like one would imagine that house is the most important thing, but they instead of the house, they choose to get to vehicles. Maybe that's their way to earn or something exactly more. You never know. Everybody has different set of priorities. Precisely. Maybe that does make sense to now what we were saying before. The cause of charity. Also, everybody had a different probably express themselves or help others in a very different way. I'll stop moving my hands town. He keeps, he keeps scaring at me by his speaking, like when I look at where handy what's are going, because it's the thirds on the table with yeah, those are my nails. At least don't do that it's not. Can I do once for are you happy now? Are you happy? I'm very happy. Yeah, so that. And then, like another part of this book which really stems out from me is the parallel they make about, like God, being a gardener and like flowers and that thing. So exactly, it's like they say, Um, and I read Jessica has this theory that people in relationships are either flowers or gardeners. Two flowers shouldn't partner. They need someone to support them, to help them glow grow. I liked him that way. And you, Audrey, asks, I'm a gardener. I say that wasn't a problem. That worked. Jessica shakes her head, she picks up her wine, she seems all at once and back she seems, all in all at once, unbashedly sad. You want a gardener, she says. This turned you into one. That's very intense. But you know what's interesting? Thing I find, like one thing I've noticed. So the narrator here, Sabrina, like the protagonist. She always says that some things that Jessica always comes up with the different theories, like either it was a dinnalist or about the gardener and the flower. But I don't think when Jessica said these things she took them...

...seriously, but I think Sabrina took them to another level. That's why, like, Jessica probably was the one, but I think she just said those things actually, or sometimes just like that. I think she took them more seriously and at the same time she's judging Jessica or everyone. Like I feel what happened here was like again um by how it happened with Sabrina and how unhappy she wasn't it is because she forced herself to be a gardener and she was like like that savior complex, that mark, like she forced herself to be something that she's not. She just wanted to be better than what she was. Like again, for lack of a bit of neurotic tendency of being highlighted, which caused everything that it caused. She was not a gardener, which is like apparent, and then she kept on. But then her circumstances was such that she could not avoid being the garden yes, but at that I also I actually have a problem with this. What I feel is a relationship has both works, with two gardeners and they tend to a garden that is a third things. You can switch the rules. Be a Ghana and a flower. Maybe you can keep switching those sides. That's how it would like. I don't think you can just be a gardener and or just be a flow exactly. I think you have to keep changing, and it was that narrative which I feel made their relation as bad as it because they were unable to switch, because that's what jessicauld hurt them, and not that I'm leaving Jessica and maybe should the whole concept exactly exactly even here. I believe this is a fight that they're having and he's she's like, well, you're clearly a flower. Enter biases. I am and she says you are, and two flowers cannot be together. I remember holding my breath then be together did did I use that phrase too soon? What did I even mean by it? I knew what I meant already. I meant everything. I meant to live for create breath. I meant entwined our lives until they could be they could not be separated. But that's insane to think after knowing someone barely for seventy two ours. That problem, of course, was that I believe...

...that I had known him from the days since in Santa Monica, like this is where she started talking. But you know, both of them acted like they didn't stop each other, but they would actually exactly. But they both acted very cool in front of each other. But that's what people do and I think that's exactly, but I think that's bad, even in their thing. I feel that you know this. People in our generation are so scared to be together, like me and you included as well, that vs so scared to voice out of our emotions at first in front of a person, to feel for the fear of feeling needy or vulnerable. And you know what it does feel like when you share something very in neat, very deep, and you feel like, should I have had shared exactly that? Become too open to to forthcoming? Was that? Was it a right decision to exact? And then you feel a little yeah, and what I feel is that in the current like from my literature, this is so loud and about. We've actually normalized suppressing your emotions in front of the romantic partner, and this book also just simply puis this onto that, while it does not directly condone it, the same thing is there in conversation with friends exactly. Yeah, yeah, and so, and I just realized this as I was reading it, because this was a pattern of mine and I'm recently trying to break it. And I was like, okay, this, this kind of makes me enforce my path. Like, nothing against the author, but yeah, but that's true. That's how our generation unfortunately functions. And Yeah, so, yeah, this garden concept for something which was interesting, and I do not know how to feel about it, because she keeps on like she's like, I loved you, Moise. I say, I don't blame you, I choose that role. It was me Gardner, remember, and she tries to smile. I think it wasn't just she who loved yeah, he loved her exactly. Not, he did. I mean, I think about it, the eyes doing so good in l a. He leaves everything because even after...

...a year he comes back unannounced to her. He leaves everything. She's just starting off. Maybe somewhere I feel that if you're if you're a gardener, and she could have let his if he came back to her, that was enough for her. I'm not saying that you should not choose your career, but if one person has a better opportunity than the other. If you want to stay together, sometimes you need to make that sacrifice and when your time comes that the person will also make sacrifice and that time you can also did precisely, and you know, I just realized there was another extract in this book right where because he came back for her leaving the amazing job, not that she called him back. She never they both loved each other enough to let each other go, but at the same time, him coming back, it was a big deal. She knew. She was like you shot Obama, like that's huge. You're at the prime of your career, like let's go back, let's finish, I'll find something or then I will come back or we can make this work or something. Yeah, you know, yeah, I get that, and it was interesting because, you know, then I read this, I agree that she had to choose her career. It's important, like she was also starting off somewhere, but she could have thought maybe more, maybe even. So that's where the resonfant part came and I was very young when I read this book and I just realized that there's a little thing in my head, which I always had, that if I do too many efforts. So I asked for too many efforts and grow resentful, and this work actually says that about if you remember. Oh my God, I actually dislike this book now. I used to discussing it. Makes me dislike it a little because, as a child, had thought that wasn't making too many efforts makes you resentful of the other person and another person is in full of yourself. I don't think they ever resented each other. I think that they felt that the other person is resentful towards but they felt guilty towards exactly. So I think that that is what maybe they could have taken turns...

...and they could have communicated, they could have communicated properly. Could be. But then she does say that toby doesn't communicate much exactly. Then I feel that maybe could have, but I don't know. You cannot say about the other person. Sometimes you do try to communicate to people and they don't want to, but that's how they are exactly. It's not very easy, like the way we're talking about. They could have done but that maybe's not easy in real life, and I don't know. I now feel a little anxious after thinking of this book, How much this book affected my mentaltate. It's a very deep book. Yeah, it is like, and she's always questioning toout the book, like if Tobias and she if they're made for each other, and in the end she's like, no, we're not made for each other. But I do feel they were made for they were even despite all the fact that they were both gardners. They just had to switch to each other's roles. They just had to be. But then when you through experience, you learn when you're in the situations of times you don't know how to react and you don't know to go about it. Seeing somebody's situation from a bird's view, you get a better angle, you get you get to know better. This is how it should have been. But when you're yourself in that situation, you don't get your own birds view, so then you cannot manage it as well as people who look from afar yea and there's a plane which is going to cross o overhead. So it is that you want to read the next extract? Oh yes, um or, is it my turn to read anything? Read it. You read it better? Yeah, because I could see you, but I never do say Sir Bringer, Jessica sits down her folk. That's not fair. Jessica and I didn't have a falling out. I still think of her as my best friend. There was no big fight, no disagreement, but sometimes it feels like something so irrefoicably happened between us, and the fact that I can't put my finger on when makes...

...it even worse. If there was a fight, we can make up, apologized recover, but you can't say sorry for a slow dissolve. But it's true. I say we're always too busy. When it was the last time you were in the city? I have a baby. She says you were too busy way before Douglas. Jessica has this out of sight, out of my mentality. In moments throughout our friendship, she has expressed to me, always prompted, that it didn't mean she loved me any this I forget she told me, but doesn't mean I don't need or care about you. We barely have a real friendship anymore. I think the last time I saw her was three months ago at Douglas Baptism. She has a seven month old baby whom I've only met twice. It takes two to tango right, so what I mean to say is that they're both right in the boat. Wrong so for a friendship to be stable, you both have to try. I mean in the end she says that Jessica does not have time and she's a baby and stuff. Okay, she isn't bothered. Okay, but you also you also visited just twice. So we need to step up, and you also like just forty five. Effort has to be made both ways and sometimes if one person has to make more effort, to you any we believe in gardeners and flowers, so you do believe that sometimes there's more effort required from one side than the other. So just show up. Yeah, that's that's how the slow dissolves, UH, starts. Sometimes you don't have the same babylength, you don't see similarly to different situations. So that's how friendships, I think, dissolved. Like I've had friendships in the past that we're very good in the start, but in the end we kind of changed as people, we kind of drifted apart, like we changed us person maybe that's what happened to them. I don't think it's just about love and it because I think...

Jessica really did care about her. She did go with her, take her to the other his college, and she hadn't find did. took a car and everything. She was there at the very moment, but sometimes, and when she was with the Tobis, I think she also forgot Jessica at some point in Jessica never like complain. I had a friend like that, you know. So she used to be like, whenever she used to visit, she would want my full attention, and then when she used to go, she used to go back for like months now, you never used to see her. So I had other friends, used to hang out with them, but when she used to come back, he's like, why are you hanging out with this person? You don't spend time with me, you've like left me in the middle of like this. You don't meet. It was like, look, I have other friends also. You go back to your town, we have friends there. I'm here. I just can't be just your friend. I need to be meet other people also, precisely, and what if he is like it's a little bit on Sabrina that she she was perhaps a little jealous of Jessica having all the things that she wanted and she just could not stand being around all that abundance that she especi cleophen. Jessica asked like, so, where is the ring exactly? She doesn't have and you know that happens. I'm sure Jessica just asked like of course, if somebody's engaged like you love, here is a ring. So I think she felt a little like you do feel like that. Friends do sometimes like press your nerves unintentionally. But that's the hard questions. But friends who care will only asked such hard questionsctly. Like in the end, Jessica did confront her when she starts making excuse, excuses to be back with tobious again, when it's impossible for them to be back there at the point where they cannot be back together, and then she that's when Jessica calls around exactly. So I see a lot of care like from both sides, just one of the immature and the others too entitled the entirely, and she knows she kind of lesle goes also precisely because she also says Jessica has been very romantic and all this and bad and basically by romantic. What if this is, I'm sorry to gut you, this is something which is like some people choose security over love,...

...security and safety first and then love. Some people want to simply continuously take risks in the name of love. They love the drama and they love the fire. But that's what she said. She's like, we lived US spontaneously by the same way. She hated it. Jessica, she says, didn't live live spontaneously. She had everything proper, but she didn't have spontanelity exactly, and which she was fine with it. But she was fine. Jessica never complained. Yeah, so it's it's it's very difficult to have a friendship running on these kinds of thoughts. I think that's how the slow does are. Probably happens, but you need to communicate or just accept other the way they are exactly and give them the room of doubt. And the last could quote, like the last extract that I would like to say, is that that's the thing about life. These moments define us, emerge out of nothing. A misstalled a trip down the stairs, a car accident. They happen in a moment, a breath. That's true. That's true. An accident can happen in a flick of a second exactly and you never see it coming. I have experienced like for good. That's true. By God's grace, I came out of handscape, but it was a crazy thing and you just you don't see. I know a lot of people see your life will past you. It's not like that. It's it's just something happened. You experience a huge jerk and then you open your eyes or you see your surrounding and everything isn't this array, if you're conscious enough. So, and please, people, seat belts. I know in India a lot of people don't wear seatbelts. Seatbelt. I was wearing seatbelt. That's why I survived. Honestly, after that day, even if I'm in my neighborhood, I always wear my seatbelt. That's what saved me. That I'm honestly telling you. Please wear your seatbelt. That's what actually saves you and that's what actually saved me. The car I was in, my car, did not even have an air bag and I still survived. That was a big accident and I survived...

...it because of my seatbelt. Road Safety, you know, I was once hit by like so it was like a trap, a bus of traffic safety and traffic safety awareness. So I was on the round about and that bus came in and crashed into me. I was fine. I was able to say I was don scared, and that was like very ironic, like the bus over traffic safety. Like once I was drunning over the flyover and I was on the right side of the road and there was a car coming from like like from middle, towards me, in my direction, the opposite towards me, and it's daylights. Well, I been we're hitting on my head and I kept perfect clicking honking on. The guy was a nasalized green and when the car past me was a police car. Exactly. It's ironic and yeah, so maybe, I guess that's about it. We hope you do read this book. It's very we're not telling you all the things because we want you to read it and with a lot of emotions. Yes, simply picking out bits and pieces and seeing how it reacts. I mean, not telling you the whole story, but I think they were made for each other. They were made for each other. Yeah, and they were special, like every every other relationships. Just I found that I did find anything a little too cliche. Yeah, like, yeah, let's not spoil the ending for people, but yes, but like different. I gets a different way. But the way the author wrote it was very smart precisely, and it did make me like the crux was very but it was good other way. I remembered more vividly now. Yeah, so, well, like how round, I would stop it. I didn't because we were going to end the episode. I was like we started like this role. Yeah, I used to do this a lot, like, no, it's like horses running. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sound right. That's how you go. No, yeah, well, you can...

...do it. I thought I can make it so many a door opening it. I can. That's a scary right, like when Um Exhaust exhaustist ISM or any these works about creaking and that's creepy. I'm going to start speaking like that. Don't ever give me a scary novel to read. I'm not going to. I don't find novel scary and as a kid, when as a kid, yes, but I never found them interesting after. Yeah, maybe we'll talk about that sometimes. Alright, lesseners, you, I don't think anybody is listening to us at this point. After the host up. Yeah, so write to us on TACO TACO talks at the regime dot com. You can give us your recommendations and more and we can get back to you soon, and if you have anything to add about the story in discuss please feel free to do that. All right. About TACO, Tacoutaco,.

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